Court Ordered AA

Comment

Comment by Dan L on July 28, 2010 at 5:40am

You know...Not a lot of the folks Bill and Bob visited in the hospitals and asylums did not want to hear their message. Many of those who did not want to hear their message at first, did end up coming back to A.A. after time... It is called, "Planting the seeds of recovery" Though not every person court ordered wants to be there, it plants a seed for when they need to come back. I encourage you to listen to speakers and try to count how many of them you hear that started their recovery with court ordered A.A. If people are being disruptive during meetings, then it is up to the group to ask them to quiet while the meeting is in progress. I absolutely disagree with ever telling anyone they are not welcome at a meeting. I was never dragged into A.A. kicking and screaming, but I do know some who were and today they sit, many years later, working awesome programs and living lives second to none. I do not think it goes against traditions to have the courts order people to A.A. People have the choice to come, they can simply read the names of the groups in a meeting list and sign the papers themselves. I further do not believe it breaks anonimity to have a secretary or group member sign the paper, as there are many Dan L's in my town and in all my years in active recovery, and have being a member of many groups over the years, I have never heard of the courts contacting any member of A.A. to verify that anyone court ordered had been at a meeting....
Now Danny, as for A.A. being declared a religion, I would like to know where that info. came from? Joining hands and praying does not constitute religion as it is an optional aspect of the meeting. If you could pass on to me where you found that info. I would be appreciative.
Just my two cents,
YIS,
Dan L

Comment by kismet on July 27, 2010 at 6:01am

Danny, I am absolutely amazed that ANY AA group would vote that its ok to drink and still receive yearly chips. I think you hit the nail on the head, though. Sounds to me like a bunch of addicts are avoiding NA since it disaproves of drinking. I have seen and heard some weird stuff in AA but damn if that doesnt take the cake!

Comment by Aussie Glenda Truss on July 26, 2010 at 6:53pm

i have no idea of the law concerning this in australia & don't need to. for me anyone that comes to AA is welcome to me even the most annoying lol as for signing cards, i feel that if you dont want to do it, just say no, personally i dont mind signing as i really have no objection to anyone knowing i am in AA. i do know lots of people that have come to AA through the courts & are around still after many years

Comment by Danny Beard on July 23, 2010 at 3:01pm

For the court to order someone to an AA meeting is against Federal Law. This also violates the constitution of the US under "Freedom of Religion" and violates our traditions by alligning AA to the legal system. The American Athiests took this to the US Supreme Court and won, citing that joining hands and praying( all groups I have attended do this) makes AA a religion. The founders were very careful to avoid this after some growing pains. AA's singleness of purpose is further watered down by members who sign the cards, which not only violates the anonimity of both signer and signee and makes the signer an agent of the court. I realize that AA needs to reach out, but this is NOT a way to do it. It destroyed the last AA group I was in as the Court ordered people sided with all the" Pure drug addicts" and voted that not only there be no more closed meetings and that drug addicts who "didn't have a problem with alcohol" { as in it's OK to drink, which NA frowns upon) could recieve Yealy chips like anyone else. I am not a cranky old "pure" alcoholic, as I have been addicted to other substances as well. I will be sad to see outside issues destroy the AA that I love.

Comment by Gil, MacKenna on July 22, 2010 at 3:17pm

In some of the meetings I go to, members often share that there is really no reason for the court ordered folks to actually be there if they don't want to be. They can just sign their own slips. No one checks. In fact, what IS against the traditions is for an AA group to verify that a signature on a court card is valid. Verifying that someone attended a meeting, even for the courts, is against the tradition of anonymity.

With that knowledge, the court ordered folks who show up at least half-way want to be there. Something might sink in.

IMHO, people who show up 40 minutes late, leave 40 minutes early, put nothing in the basket and are just there to have a slip signed are an annoyance at worst. If some of them get sober out of it, I think its our duty to carry the message and put up with it.

Comment by Guy Lewis on July 21, 2010 at 5:37pm

For the better part of 12 years, I attended open A.A. meetings by a written invitation. This was resentful to me because “I was not one of you.”

However, I came to the ordered meetings. I was resentful at times, sometimes I was to drunk and loaded to hear anything, sometimes too hung over to hear anything, and sometimes I just planted my butt and did the required time.

Than the thought finally filtered into my thick head, and then flowed down to my heart that some of you actually were just like me. What a surprise that was to me. Today I have over 20 years sober; no more hangovers, resentments towards A.A., etc… Imagine that, it took 12 years for me to see what others saw.

Just like me, there are many other people, who got a written nudge, and found sobriety: If a court card helps just one more person find sobriety, than I am all for it.

Sober hugs,
Guy

Comment by Robert H on July 20, 2010 at 12:04pm

Let see how this whole court card came about. Rowland H had Ebby T release to him in court. This may not be court ordered but surly was court approved. Eddy then in turned carried the message to Bill W. The practice of having the courts released to members went on into the mid-1940. Then there was a Judge in Downey CA who told the members they if they would developed some kind of attendance card they would have to show up in court all the time. This was a courtesy to the AA member.
Myself I did get to AA on card but I know a lot of people who did, and many with long term sobriety.
As far “folks not listening, sometimes being resentful” well it’s been my experience that it is not restricted to the court card people, besides I don’t have the time to be showing up in the courts to have people released to me.

Comment by zoolie on July 19, 2010 at 7:34pm

Someone I had loved got clean in a court ordered system and is still clean today, 10 years later. It gave him an opportunity to turn his life around and he ran with it. I am grateful that that system as it saved his life. So maybe it's not a bad system, even if it doesnt help everyone, the one person it does help might just make everything else ok.

Comment by DwightMayo on July 19, 2010 at 5:38pm

I have seen mixed results from court ordered people and wont try to say that it does or does not work.
the Up side is it does get some into recovery but the down side is it can cause meetings to be disrupted by those ordered to go there, There are several ways to deal with that one of the most common being for a meeting to vote to not sign court papers. One we used at a meeting here that I think worked better was to sign the papers near the start of the meeting and tell people that we didnt require they stayed. The court must have heard because we started getting fewer people referred although they didnt completely stop. The interesting thing about it was the number that stayed was higher than expected and they seemed to show more interest in being there. Most still didnt stay after their court ordered time was up but hopefully they did at least have a better chance of realizing that there was an option if they ever wanted it.

Comment by Cheryl F. on July 19, 2010 at 3:37pm

Many of us have been thru the court system, it's our duty to reach out and give; You might not stay, but if you're lucky--you'll come back and we must be there. Cheryl F

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