Outside Issue/A drug is a drug

NA believes that a drug is a drug is a drug. AA believes that drugs other than alcohol is an outside interest although I know many in AA support the NA belief. What do yall think? Do drugs transfer? As an alcoholic am I more susecptible to addiction to say, heroin or other drugs? My *personal* experience tells me no---but I certainly have not pushed the envelope on that one. You?

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Permalink Reply by Bruce J on July 20, 2009 at 6:00pm
If we look at a "drug" as A drug, broadly speaking, is any substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function., then so is sugar, caffeine and an abundance of other foods we intake daily (some of us).

Personally and IMHO, that NA statement of a drug is a drug is a drug is a ridiculous statement and I've never paid it any attention over the years. If I were ever going to relapse, I can tell you absolutely it will be on black russians and not some pill. I was a 100% drinker ... an alcoholic totally. In this past 2 1/2 year journey of mine, I've been put under general anesthesia 11 times with at least one more surgery currently being scheduled soon for the cancer in my lung. There was not one time in the hospital or at home afterward where taking pain killers ever raised the thought of having MORE. Never. I took what was prescribed, as prescribed only for the time I needed to. There was no "high" to them, no thought of "more would be better" or any other addictive thought.

Now, if one were a pill addict, that could probably be a problem. But to equate pills to alcohol is a total misstatement in my opinion.

Good topic Kismet )
Permalink Reply by Rosie G on July 21, 2009 at 3:51am
For me, a drug IS a drug...I started with alcohol and be the time I became clean, 35 years later...I was using herion. I think every individual IS just that! An individual. Possibly the choices one make can lead to drug of choice. For me, once I started getting sick and paying consequences, I switch to another substance, thinking that it would be different. As an addict, any 12 step meeting will help me stay sober. I prefer AA and always will. I was an alcoholic long before a tried other substances. I suffer from depression and do not abuse my medications...when I don't take them I tend to relapse. I have "tested" this theory and for me, it is a true statement. I do not take anything for anxiety nor pain. I have other health issues that keep me in pain and I cannot use opiates. The strongest I use is Advil. That works for me.

I absolutely agree that sugar, caffeine and such can be consider 'drugs.' If there are symptoms of withdrawl...then it can be considered a drug. Also, there is the question of behavior...I became so used to taking a pill in the morning that I would, without giving it a second thought, reach for the bottle of Tylenol. Habits are just that...habits. Smoking ciagrette is a habit as well as an addiction...the body requires the nicotine to 'feel' normal.

In closing, I believe it's an indivdual thing...only an indidvidual can say whether he/she is an addict/alcoholic.
Permalink Reply by Bruce J on July 21, 2009 at 11:28am
Well said Violet!
Permalink Reply by Kent B on July 22, 2009 at 7:53pm
We had this discussion in a big book meeting one night and it evolved partially into a discussion of needing to understand the time when AA came about and the later development of NA. We had talked some about alcohol triggering a different chemical response in that the seratonin levels were more so effected with alcohol and that drugs dominated the dopamine response. I have been coming around for quite a few 24's and have seen the marijuana maintenance program where alcoholics don't drink but think pot is ok. Then there are chemical heads that feel that alcohol is ok etc etc. My personal observations is that there are many things that can send a person back out on a binge. So the substance is not what worries me about my sobriety but more the reason for taking a mood altering substance, whatever it may be. Living life on life's terms does not equate to a pot of coffee to help me wake up, energy drinks to kick me into gear, herbs for helping me sleep etc..
I have been totally chemical free for over 20 years including antibiotics and although alcohol is my drug of choice (alcohol technically in Pharmacology is actually a toxin) I was also addicted to Percodan and Tylenol 4's since I worked in a pharmacy for eight years.
I personally don't believe any of it is "the drug" but it's the attitude that leads to expecting that the drug will bring relief in some strange way that is not under a very strict prescribed manner.
Permalink Reply by DwightMayo on July 22, 2009 at 9:04pm
I believe in the single purpose of the program of AA as well as the inclusion that NA has decided to accept
the program of NA was tossed around by others before Jimmy K and others finally started it because the program of AA was set up as a single focus program and addicts felt out of place too ofter
although the "reasons we drank/used are the same and our feelings are the same many strictly alkies cant relate to addicts and vise versa so there are separate outlets to give the feeling of oneness and knowing and understanding between each of us.
I rarely attend NA anymore although there is quite bit of use in my story. When I attend NA I do introduce myself as an addict and when in aa as an alcoholic not as an addict alcoholic coffee guzzling pack a day smoking anger obsessed chocolate fiend. or as dual addicted either
I understand that sometimes there isnt another meeting available and would never suggest not being there for someone
IF I were feeling that I need a meeting bad and AA or NA weren't available but GA were I would probably go to one. I would explain that I was an alkie and need some support that even though gambling is not addictive to me I know the feelings are the same but that would be my last mention of my "fix" for the problem after that I would focus on my feelings and any urges caused by them and probably;y be well welcomed.
Someone new to the programs is understandable coming up with the alkie addict or dual/cross addicted intros but if someone has been around for a while and hasn't learned the single purposes of AA and the feeling of inclusion of any drug addict in NA it is about time they look at the reasons these separate but like programs were set up and why they work
Permalink Reply by Donna C. on August 9, 2009 at 6:15pm
You really have to ask yourself - was it the alcohol that got you in trouble or your thinking? What is there was no such substance as alcohol? Do you think you would have led a different life? I don't I think a drug is a drug is a drug includes alcohol. Remember 10% was the drinking - 90% was our thinking. So if this is true, we were fu and alcohol was a venue for our self destruction - if it wasn't there, yes, speaking for myself, I'd be on the NA page right now.
Permalink Reply by Donna C. on August 9, 2009 at 6:18pm
I can't believe you were asked to leave. That pisses me off as it flies in the face of everything aa is about - where was their acceptance? They could have done some real damage to your sobriety. I'm glad you didn't keep a resentment over it and found another meeting. To hell with these self-righteous people who keep trying to divide everything - "women only" - "non smoking" - I can understand the smoking but if we smoke outside who cares?

velvetviolet said:
I hear ya Dwight....about twenty years ago, I traveled a lot, so I would pick up meetings on the go. And I found a womens non smoking meeting, and dropped in. I introduced myself as and Alcoholic and an Addict, and was promptly scolded for not being in the right meeting, and was asked to leave. They said it was for alcoholics only. Well are you friggin kidden me!....at least I got it two thirds right, I was a women and an alcoholic, guess they wouldn't let the addict part slide. I was really pissed off. But just left and went right into another meeting, and they didn't seem to care as long as they could smoke copious amounts of cigarettes, and consume gallons of coffee...but those aren't drugs right?
Addiction is addiction in my book...no matter what. And to ask someone making an effort to fellowship with another addict no matter what it is your addicted to, should never be an issue.
Permalink Reply by Amy(Wallace)C on August 10, 2009 at 10:47am
Considering I used drugs for the same reason as I drank=intoxication, i don't really see the difference. Where the difference really gets muddied is that the same program of recovery is used for each issue.

HOWEVER...having said that...
Out of respect to AA I introduce myself as an alcholic at AA and as an addict at NA. You see I have (through the program of AA and my HP) lost the need to be "special".
If I go to a meeting and they ask me to leave based on how I introduce myself, maybe I need a look at why I think I need to introduce myself the way I did. If I truly think I did nothing wrong so be it-it's that meeting's loss, not mine.

Some sponsors will tell sponsees "stuff" about not taking meds and maybe getting away from the boyfriend/girlfriend that is causing angst in his/her life.

Always fascinates me the person will give up the meds on the sponsors say so, but not the boyfriend/girlfriend.
Permalink Reply by Stacy D on August 11, 2009 at 11:47am
Great topic. I attend AA now, alcohol is the vice at hand. 14 yrs ago I went to NA due to a problem with meth. In meetings today some oldtimers a very opinionated about AA being exclusive to alcoholism. I am an addict...adiicted to alcohol, pharms., meth, food, caffine, anything that changes the way I feel. I am also clinaclly depressed & suffer w/ anxiety, therefore I take medication for that. I don't mention that depending on the meeting I'm in because that can be consider as drug use by some. I always remember to take what I can use & leave the rest. I also make sure to let my medical provider know everything I'm feeling so that I don't get myself in trouble with a perscription. I question everything I feel & need an outside perspective to make sure I'm not letting my addictions fool me. To thine own self be true, but do it with honesty :)
Permalink Reply by Amy(Wallace)C on August 13, 2009 at 12:18pm
As I read your other post about health issues/recovery (or whatever it was...sorry I have horrid CRS). I got to thinking (no comments from the peanut gallery).

Anyway...
I guess what I have noticed in my years of sobriety is that there will always be those who insist they "need" their medications and will "use if I don't take them".
Then there will be those who use medications as a short term crutch for a problem.
Then there are those of us who dread the thought of taking anything other than Motrin because of the dreaded side effects (for example for me...Sudafed. It made me so jittery I was in tears waiting for it to wear off).
Those who use medications appropriately are obvious. They have managable lives and successful programs. Those who are using medications for other purposes are fairly obvious. They may not be drinking, but the sure as hell do not show any managability in their lives and do not reflect the happiness, joy, and freedom we are given when we truly work the program.
Permalink Reply by kismet on August 13, 2009 at 12:58pm
You know its weird--I have a paradoxical reaction to a number of drugs. Benedryl, rather than making me sleepy, wakes me up, makes me hyper-alert and my heart beats like its about to jump out of my chest. The same thing happens with some other medications.

Sure, people always have excuses to do what they want to do. Although for the life of me it is hard to understand why someone would want an anti-depression (usually SSRI's) if not needed. They do not give any sort of high. Also, if they truly are not needed they will not help and therefore cannot be a crutch. Depression is common in early recovery and generally passes with time. This type of depression does not need medication--it needs time and recovery.

The type of depression I am referring to is the type where you lie on your bed all day staring at the ceiling fan, are unable to do anything, have disturbed (and disturbing) thoughts, and contemplate suicide because the pain of living is unbearable. The steps do NOT work for this nor does reading the BB (for one thing you can't read). I could give other symptoms but I think you know what I mean. Are SSRI's over-prescribed? Probably so--but a person suffering from Major Depressive Disorder NEEDS medication( and probably more than SSRI's) to live a happy and normal life. There should be no shame in this. Ditto for the bi-polar, schizophrenic and other mentally ill folks.

I am not so sure we are really disagreeing on this as much as looking at it in different ways ie- don't take them if you don't need them but DO take them if they are needed. I can tell you this: the judgmental attitude towards psych meds is the main reason that I do not currently attend meetings. Do I have a resentment? You betcha. Will I get over it? Most likely.
Permalink Reply by Lisa Ann on August 13, 2009 at 1:20pm
I believe I'm more suceptable to other drugs, as I was. I took whatever was there. Alcohol was certainly the King, but anything else could accompany it. I've done pretty much everything except heroin & whatever new drugs have come out these past 6 yrs. I thank God I never did heroin b/c I'm sure I would've Loved it.

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