Different Approach to Staying Sober

We had some people there from a group in Brisbane who dont worry about the spiritual side of the program or the steps and that is my first experience with a group like that. They didnt joing in the serenity or the Lords Prayer! The National Office committee were trying to take them off the AA meeting list as they dont believe in the Big Book either! I found it weird.
Talking to others after the meeting, I found out there are groups like this in usa too. I felt sorry for one young newcomer who was with them as he was "white knuckling it" and has had numerous relapses - if only he did the steps hey? But the ones who shared except for that group, shared about the steps and God, so maybe that will help him.
I am not judging them, but I dont know how you do the program without the big book, steps and the spiritual side. They talked about being positive, staying focused and setting goals and i am all for being positive but found it quite strange.
I couldn't even stay sober for the first 7 weeks of attending AA meetings until I finished the 12 steps! so I would have died "out there" if I followed this type of sobriety.
Have you had this type of recovery group experience?

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Southpaw (Erin H) on July 29, 2009 at 1:28pm

I'm not sure why one would do the steps numerous times unless she (or he) was a dry drunk in denial anyway. For me, "God" is the traditional one, for the most part, and accepting that there is a God was my biggest obstacle. I, too, was atheist for many years (that's another story!), and so the first time I got sober, I really hadn't accepted God, as I understood him.
I believe there is a difference between those who show up for meetings and those who live the spiritual life; ie - the 12 steps. If a person isn't spiritually fit, nothing will keep her sober - not AA, not a sponsor, and certainly not years sober. I have sat in many meetings with various members who ranged from one day to 20 years. I don't give a damn how many years sober someone has because TODAY for these 24 hours, we have the exact same amount of time.
I've seen many members come and go, some who denied a god as he understands him, and some who were religious to the extreme. I do know this: "A spiritual experience is most commonly known as an occurrence that is uncommon in the sense that it doesn’t fit in with the norm of everyday activities and life experiences, and its connection is with the individual’s perception of the divine" , and if one does not experience that, then no amount of AA, Sponsors, or Time will matter.
I've also seen A LOT of self-righteousness come from a member's many years sober, and it's very ugly, and very transparent.
I really don't know what your objective here is, NB, other than to stir up the pot a bit, and that's fine by me, because LIVING THE LIFE means I don't have to be a bitter, goading person anymore.
Take Care

Permalink Reply by Frank B on July 29, 2009 at 5:23pm

I am sorry if I you think I was taking it personal......and YOU are right about "My Program" It's only been 14 days but I did have 4 years until Dec 2008. I thought I could do it alone.
The reason I replied to you, is I was worried about other new comers thinking they can do it without a higher power. If you are truly making it with out "GOD" or another "Higher Power", you are rare. And that's OK and I am glad you are staying sober.
Just as long as other new comers (I consider myself a new comer) Relize how rare you are.....Most people in your situation fail. Again I am happy you are making it...I really am
Frank B

Non-Believer said:

How come you are so defensive? I didn't say anything about you; I shared MY experience.

Non-Believer said:
LOL You've been sober, what, a week? Of course you know everything! How could I ever have a thought of my own? I must be two seconds away from a drunk. :)

Frank B said:
So you are saying "you" did it....without any help? If you put your trust and faith in yourself, why AA? AA is a spiritual program. That is the way it was founded...
I think you "doth protest to much" You are trying to convince "yourself" there is no "Higher Power". You need to look at your AA group and friends. They are your "Higher Power"...they are carrying you.
Do you sponser anyone? Do you do service outside of your group?
You say you have "experience, strength and hope" Do you really beleive that the Strength comes form "you"? Why didn't you have that strength before AA...And what do you base "your hope" on? Yourself?
You also state you have 12 years sober ? Then you should KNOW YOU DIDN"T DO IT ALONE.....You sort of sound like a 12 year old. you are just rebelling. GROW UP and admit YOU didn't do get sober all by "YOURSELF" and without a "Highr Power"....
I truly beleive that if you keep on this road of "self", "pride" and all you will be brought down. "Pride cometh before a fall"
So my suggestion. Is LET IT GO...you don't have to admit to anyone but yourself that there is a "Higher Power"..But quit try to convnice others that you "did it" without one. No one but YOU think You have that kind of Power. The rest of us just hope the best for you and that keep coming back

Non-Believer said:
I have done the steps numerous times, though, I'm sure that some would argue I didn't do them the "right" way because I don't believe in a god. I was willing to believe that the universe is greater than me and that if there is a god, I'm not it. That was all I needed to make my start.
I've found a fair bit of anti-intellectualism in AA, and this is one area that makes this trend highly apparent. Anyway, as my thinking faculties were restored, I found that I could use my brain and think for myself. Yes, AA is a spiritual program, but I think we would all agree that, "faith without works is dead." Thus, for some of us, spirituality is action. I've heard for YEARS that, "works without faith is also dead", but I don't agree. I have become sane, productive, healthy and have amazing relationships that were not possible. And, yes, I did it, not a god. Though this is anathema to many in AA, it is my experience. And, after all, our experience, strength and hope is what we share, and I have no lack of any of them.
As hard as it may be for some "believers" to believe, I apply the principles in all of my affairs, do regular inventory work and feel that I have gained a great deal from AA. I just don't need anyone to do my thinking for me. But hey, I've only been sober 12 years, what the heck would I possibly know?

Permalink Reply by Southpaw (Erin H) on July 30, 2009 at 8:53am

Sanctimony......? Interesting choice of words, since you basically referred to people as stupid ( "I've found a fair bit of anti-intellectualism in AA, and this is one area that makes this trend highly apparent.") and your elitist attitude towards a member's 2 weeks' sobriety compared to your 12. I believe it is you who preyed upon others considering you posted to this particular thread not even an hour after membership here. Whatever works for you, NB, works, and if that was your point, altho, I suspect it was not, you've made it. So perhaps it is you who should drop the sanctimony, because clearly, no one gives a damn!

Permalink Reply by Rik Perkins on July 30, 2009 at 1:41pm

Some people.... I will pray for them...

Non-Believer said:

And, believe me, we don't want what you've got either.

Rik Perkins said:
I just wonder how long they have stayed without drinking. I don't think that it constitutes sobriety by not drinking, having been there for years a few times myself. Until I got God into my life, my spiritualty, I didn't get sober. They might have something that works for them, I just wouldn't want any of it if it were me.

Permalink Reply by Sara VP on July 30, 2009 at 2:27pm

One good thing about disagreeing with others is it makes us think!! It's easy to tell someone they're wrong, but not as easy to tell people what is RIGHT. So this debate...er, I mean blog...interests me greatly because it forces me to ask myself, who am I & what DO I believe.

As for working the steps multiple times, well, I'll just say this:
I work them whenever I have an issue that needs resolving. 1. I am powerless over ______ and my life is unmanageable....and so forth. It's a great tool!